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 Radiobridge@aol.com
24.09.01 03:08:24 (MEZ)
From: Charles_Bautista@abs.pinoycentral.com
We need not decipher Cohen's song below . You can already
find hidden
messages in the hit song New York!NewYork!
>'New York, New York' - Frank Sinatra (1958)
>
>Start spreading the news, I'm leaving today ( the
terrorists know the
media mileage they'll get for wreaking havoc in new york)
>I want to be a part of it - New York, New York (the
terrorists literally
fused/melded their bodies with new york by crashing into
the WTC )
>These vagabond shoes, are longing to stray ( these
terrorists really
intended to rome around looking for a perfect place to
crash their planes)
>Right through the very heart of it - New York, New
York (unfortunately,
the had to choose New York)
>
>I want to wake up in a city, that doesn't sleep (it
literally didn;t
sleep after the attacks)
>And find I'm king of the hill - top of the heap (heap
of rubble)
>
>These little town blues, are melting away (the blues
melted and gave way
to hate and terror in the hearts of the Americans)
>I'm gonna make a brand new start of it - in old New
York (after the
destruction, a new beginning)
>If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere ( if
the the terrorists
can do it it new york, they can do it almost anywhere)
>It's up to you - New York, New York!
19.09.01 19:05:41 (MEZ)
From:
senanews@hotmail.com (senanews hamza)
(Tanzania)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
What are your ideas about the meaning of
those lines?
===============================================================
THE LYRICS of Leonard Cohen's song is great
because contained various
meanings and
one could even write abook about it.
But in principle had crystal clear
summarized that "Politics is a dirty
game."
The song indicates that there is danger in
politics if opposition come from
within the
system than outside. It also cautioned that its better
for the
opposition
to be given chance to express their views as a good way
of
solving
diferrences than using punishment or revenge as means of
solution.
It showed that when people are not given
chance to express their views could
creat big
enemity incorporating religious beliefs(God). Briefly the
song
called upon
political leaders worldwide under the sun (without
mentioning
them) to use
wisdom in their daily leadership activities and
accomodate
people
opposing their system through Dialogue than punishing
them in order
to maintain
global peace.
The song emphasised the importance of
"dialogue" in problem solving and
crystal
clear shows how use of power could cause more damage
than
benefit,
because more enemies than friends would be made through
this
system.
As the song indicated, "revenge"
is paid by "revenge", hence as a result,
if
revenge is
used in solving this problem its end product is
sustainable
global
terrorism - nobody will be the winner.
"FIRST WE TAKE MANHATTAN" writer
is a great thinker, teacher, analyst and
politician
of the third millennium, who has the right to be awarded
by global
community
for the good work he did - right vision on conflict
solution
approach
-"Dialogue" only.
===============================================================
How do you explain the roots for the hate
which were caught in the cry
of an
individual marked "by this birthmark on my
skin"?
===============================================================
He meant a mission that must be done at all
cost, even if it meant to
loose life.
A vital revenge believed to originate from
God, which could not be forgotten
by the
agrieved person against his/her enemy.
Briefly "Revenge" is the root.
=============================================================
Almost 15 years later, what are your
reflections when you watch the
horror on
the TV-screen?
Leonard Cohen's is a scientific politician
and linguist who proved to the
world
community through his 5 years Poem that opposition from
within and
outside
couldnot be stopped or controlled by military power,
however big it
might be.
Other reflections include the truth that
terrorism is very dangerous, hence
there is
vital need for the world community to collect their
effort and
research on
this terrific event, why was happened in America and at
that
particular
places in order to get permanent solutions than creating
more
dangerous
situations eg revenge.
Terrorism must be condemned worldwide,
because it claims lives of the
innocent
people and cause great economic damage, as I have seen
the horror on
the TV
screen the material day - this was proved.
The reflections also indicated that
military power have failed to stop
terrorism,
thats why a powerfull America state with all modern
military
equipment
failed even to safe-guard his own military and economic
symbols
at the hands
of terrorists.
Hence according to the song my reflections
on this issue, I think Leonard
Cohen's call
is to use new approach in solving world problem and
thats
"Dialogue"
or diplomatic means and not military or any power because
it has
failed and
everybody of us has witnessed what happened to the
world
leader -
America.
Reflections end by calling upon all the
world community regardless of
religion,
race, and state to join hand against terrorism through
scientific
means not
boasting means or revenge.
===============================================================
What would be your message today as sort of
advice for both sides of
this
frontline?
==============================================================
For peaceful world, big powers and small
nations must respect each
other and
when they get into conflict they must only use
"dialogue" to
solve their
differences rather than military use.
The habit of boasting with
military/economic power will not create a friendly
and
peacefull world.
Last but not least people in a given
community with different views in a
given
political system must be allowed chance to deliver their
views than
punishing
them could not create peace, but instead could create
great enemity
which would
inturn be dangerous even to the innocent such as children
etc.
The world should carry a research to know
why America is much followed by
terrorists
than other country of the world, in order to get a
lasting
solution and
save people life and economy.
================================================================
... and there are more questions with
regard to the great argument: is a
poem
inherently political?
A poem is inherently political. Because it
talks about human life. While
Politics is
a form of human life, such as capitalistic political
system
or
socialistic political system both are life forms just to
mention a
few.
Capitalistic political system values "material"
while Socialistic
political
system values "Human being".
The work of
any Poem writer under the sun is concerned with feelings
or
imaginative
description of human being life. In other words we can
say that
there is no
poem without life (Politics) but we can have life
(Politics)
without
Poem.
Which means
that not all political issues are kept in poem but all
"poems"
are life
description.
Thats why "Poem is inherently
political"
================================================================
Or does a poem with political intent cease
to be poem?
The answer is a big NO.
===============================================================
become rhetoric?
The answer is again NO - poem is not
rhetoric as Leonard has
shown us.
===============================================================
Briefly these are my Observations or
response to the Leonard Cohen's song.
Lets continue net-working.
Best Wishes
Hamza K.
17.09.01 11:30:45 (MEZ)
From:
paul.black@unn.ac.uk (Paul Black)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
see the lyrics of "The Future"
the title of the album "First we takeManhattan"
is from...
I've seen the future baby, it is murder!!
Paul Francis Black
Senior
Lecturer in Computing
School of
Computing & Mathematics
University
of Northumbria
tel 2273637
e-mail
paul.black@unn.ac.uk
http://cmwww.unn.ac.uk/~paulb/paulhome.html
15.09.01 23:37:34 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
Perhaps you might send a copy of the lyric
you are referring to with your request. I am not familiar
with it. In any event, my message to people on the
"frontlines" is likely to be the same: disarm
and go back to your homes in peace. Rage is what got us
to this point. More rage will simply make matters worse.
Charlie
16.09.01 18:46:29 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
radiobridge@aol.com
Yes, it sounds like the lyric is very high
in coincidental "hits," but
really... Too bad the last verse says
"Father's Day" instead of "the anniversary
of Camp David." It seems to me
that the possible keys to what L. Cohen was
thinking about are two: the sister, who appears to
have had a bad New York experience, and the line of
people in the station. Has anyone had any thoughts
about those? And why Berlin, for pity's
sake? (Answer: because it's poetry.
??)
Your pal, Charlie Nostradamus
A further thought
16.09.01
21:56:06 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
radiobridge@aol.com
Hi, there. It also occurs to me that there
is a song, older than
Cohen's
which contains the words "You'll take Manhattan...
(, and Staten
Island ,
too.") in the sense of "you'll conquer the
town, you'll be a
hit..."
which Cohen was probably binging off of, esp. if he had a
sis'
who came
here to do that and failed to. Just a thought. Charlie
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Hermann Josef am 14. September 2001 00:09:17:
Als Antwort auf: Anschlag auf das World
Trade Center in New York City, 11.09.2001
geschrieben
von partisan am 11. September 2001 17:35:31:
I´ve seen the future brother, it is
murder......
Cohen ist mein Begleiter in dieser
finsteren Zeit, wo die Doppelmoral regiert.
Kein Mensch
trauert um die 64000 KINDER JEDEN TAG an Unterernährung,
Krieg, vermeidbaren Erkrankungen sterben. Ich leg
"The FUTURE" in meinen Player und träume von
einer Welt in der die Liebe bestimmt nicht der Hass, in
der die Wahrheit obsiegt nicht die Lüge.
Trauer um
die Opfer,,,,,
Trauer um
das Leben,,,,,
Trauer um
unsere Zukunft,,,,,,
Hass auf die Gier der Menschen das
lebendige Leben zu vernichten....
Ich habe große Angst,
Euer SilentObserver
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Harald als Antwort auf: Re: Manhattan.. what a
tradegy
geschrieben
von frstrg7 am 11. September 2001 22:28:19:
Hi,
ja, das
klingt interessant.
Aber die
neuen Ereignisse haben mich an die Fassung von Jennifer
Warnes erinnert, die ja mit First we take mehr Erfolg
hatte als Cohen. Bei ihr fängt "First we take
Manhattan mit einem Ausschnitt aus den Radio-Nachrichten
an .... <>. An mehr erinnere ich mich nicht. Das
deutet darauf hin, dass nicht die Musikindustrie gemeint
ist. Obwohl das sicher auch interessanter Ansatz ist.
Um es
zuzuspitzen: Der (neue) Begriff "Schläfer",
der durch die Medien geistert und die zwanzig Jahre of
boredom .... Möglicherweise hat Cohen sich also in die
Rolle eines "Revolutionärs", wenn nicht eines
Terroristen versetzt?
Grusz,
Harald
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von frstrg7 am 11. September 2001 22:28:19:
Als Antwort
auf: Re: Manhattan.. geschrieben von Christina am 11.
September 2001 13:04:56:
eine dritte storyline wird die
fassungslosigkeit sein, die mit dem heutigen tag, immer
mit der Tragödie von Manhattan in Verbindung gebracht
werden wird... sorry, dass ich nicht auf deine statements
eingehe, aber auch ich bin angesichts dieser
schrecklichen tragödie fassungslos.
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Christina am 11. September 2001 13:04:56:
Als Antwort
auf: Re: Tower Of Song - Cave - Manhattan.. geschrieben
von Harald am 21. August 2001 17:50:34:
Hallo, Harald!
Der Künstler hat jedenfalls Einflüsse,
die ich nicht kenne und nicht beurteilen kann. Also kann
das, was er erschafft, als Gefäß für fremde Gedanken
dienen.
>WER ihn
zu "twenty years of boredom" verurteilt hat
.. also,
"they sentenced"
-> sie,
Mehrzahl, verurteilten, Vergangenheit. Normalerweise
Staatsgewalt - Judikative. Konsequenz des Verurteilens
ist ein Beschränkung der Handlungsfreiheit.
Schlussfolgerung:
Das System; genau dieses, welches er von
"innen" verändern wollte; in diesem
Zusammenhang (Musik) nicht der Staat, also wohl die
Musikindustrie? .. war ihm 20 Jahre lang eine Fessel, und
jetzt befreit er sich.
Ihr Einfluss
hält ihn nicht länger, und "ihre" Macht über
ihn ist auch gebrochen.
"Ihre"
Macht; die Frau - "remember me, I brought your
groceries in". (Das ist die zweite storyline, die
ich sehe; aber manchmal schimmert durch, dass die beiden
doch untrennbar sind) (die Storylines, und die Personen
*g*)
Befreit sich
in einem Schlag von beiden, dem System, der Frau. Denkt
er. Denn die Fesseln erkennen und den Willen haben, sie
abzustreifen, heisst ja noch nicht, tatsächlich frei
sein.
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