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 Radiobridge@aol.com
24.09.01 03:08:24 (MEZ)
From: Charles_Bautista@abs.pinoycentral.com
We need not decipher Cohen's song below . You can
already find hidden
messages in the hit song New York!NewYork!
>'New York, New York' - Frank Sinatra (1958)
>
>Start spreading the news, I'm leaving today (
the terrorists know the
media mileage they'll get for wreaking havoc in
new york)
>I want to be a part of it - New York, New
York (the terrorists literally
fused/melded their bodies with new york by
crashing into the WTC )
>These vagabond shoes, are longing to stray (
these terrorists really
intended to rome around looking for a perfect
place to crash their planes)
>Right through the very heart of it - New
York, New York (unfortunately,
the had to choose New York)
>
>I want to wake up in a city, that doesn't
sleep (it literally didn;t
sleep after the attacks)
>And find I'm king of the hill - top of the
heap (heap of rubble)
>
>These little town blues, are melting away
(the blues melted and gave way
to hate and terror in the hearts of the
Americans)
>I'm gonna make a brand new start of it - in
old New York (after the
destruction, a new beginning)
>If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere
( if the the terrorists
can do it it new york, they can do it almost
anywhere)
>It's up to you - New York, New York!
19.09.01 19:05:41 (MEZ)
From:
senanews@hotmail.com (senanews hamza)
(Tanzania)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
What are your ideas about the
meaning of those lines?
===============================================================
THE LYRICS of Leonard Cohen's song
is great because contained various
meanings
and one could even write abook about it.
But in principle had crystal clear
summarized that "Politics is a dirty
game."
The song indicates that there is
danger in politics if opposition come from
within
the system than outside. It also cautioned that
its better for the
opposition
to be given chance to express their views as a
good way of
solving
diferrences than using punishment or revenge as
means of solution.
It showed that when people are not
given chance to express their views could
creat
big enemity incorporating religious beliefs(God).
Briefly the song
called
upon political leaders worldwide under the sun
(without mentioning
them)
to use wisdom in their daily leadership
activities and accomodate
people
opposing their system through Dialogue than
punishing them in order
to
maintain global peace.
The song emphasised the importance
of "dialogue" in problem solving
and
crystal
clear shows how use of power could cause more
damage than
benefit,
because more enemies than friends would be made
through this
system.
As the song indicated,
"revenge" is paid by
"revenge", hence as a result, if
revenge
is used in solving this problem its end product
is sustainable
global
terrorism - nobody will be the winner.
"FIRST WE TAKE MANHATTAN"
writer is a great thinker, teacher, analyst
and
politician
of the third millennium, who has the right to be
awarded by global
community
for the good work he did - right vision on
conflict solution
approach
-"Dialogue" only.
===============================================================
How do you explain the roots for
the hate which were caught in the cry
of
an individual marked "by this birthmark on
my skin"?
===============================================================
He meant a mission that must be
done at all cost, even if it meant to
loose
life.
A vital revenge believed to
originate from God, which could not be
forgotten
by
the agrieved person against his/her enemy.
Briefly "Revenge" is the
root.
=============================================================
Almost 15 years later, what are
your reflections when you watch the
horror
on the TV-screen?
Leonard Cohen's is a scientific
politician and linguist who proved to the
world
community through his 5 years Poem that
opposition from within and
outside
couldnot be stopped or controlled by military
power, however big it
might
be.
Other reflections include the truth
that terrorism is very dangerous, hence
there
is vital need for the world community to collect
their effort and
research
on this terrific event, why was happened in
America and at that
particular
places in order to get permanent solutions than
creating more
dangerous
situations eg revenge.
Terrorism must be condemned
worldwide, because it claims lives of the
innocent
people and cause great economic damage, as I have
seen the horror on
the
TV screen the material day - this was proved.
The reflections also indicated that
military power have failed to stop
terrorism,
thats why a powerfull America state with all
modern military
equipment
failed even to safe-guard his own military and
economic symbols
at
the hands of terrorists.
Hence according to the song my
reflections on this issue, I think Leonard
Cohen's
call is to use new approach in solving world
problem and thats
"Dialogue"
or diplomatic means and not military or any power
because it has
failed
and everybody of us has witnessed what happened
to the world
leader
- America.
Reflections end by calling upon all
the world community regardless of
religion,
race, and state to join hand against terrorism
through scientific
means
not boasting means or revenge.
===============================================================
What would be your message today as
sort of advice for both sides of
this
frontline?
==============================================================
For peaceful world, big powers and
small nations must respect each
other
and when they get into conflict they must only
use "dialogue" to
solve
their differences rather than military use.
The habit of boasting with
military/economic power will not create a
friendly
and
peacefull world.
Last but not least people in a
given community with different views in a
given
political system must be allowed chance to
deliver their views than
punishing
them could not create peace, but instead could
create great enemity
which
would inturn be dangerous even to the innocent
such as children etc.
The world should carry a research
to know why America is much followed by
terrorists
than other country of the world, in order to get
a lasting
solution
and save people life and economy.
================================================================
... and there are more questions
with regard to the great argument: is a
poem
inherently political?
A poem is inherently political.
Because it talks about human life. While
Politics
is a form of human life, such as capitalistic
political system
or
socialistic political system both are life forms
just to mention a
few.
Capitalistic political system values
"material" while Socialistic
political
system values "Human being".
The
work of any Poem writer under the sun is
concerned with feelings or
imaginative
description of human being life. In other words
we can say that
there
is no poem without life (Politics) but we can
have life (Politics)
without
Poem.
Which
means that not all political issues are kept in
poem but all "poems"
are
life description.
Thats why "Poem is inherently
political"
================================================================
Or does a poem with political
intent cease to be poem?
The answer is a big NO.
===============================================================
become rhetoric?
The answer is again NO - poem is
not rhetoric as Leonard has
shown
us.
===============================================================
Briefly these are my Observations
or response to the Leonard Cohen's song.
Lets continue net-working.
Best Wishes
Hamza K.
17.09.01 11:30:45 (MEZ)
From:
paul.black@unn.ac.uk (Paul Black)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
see the lyrics of "The
Future" the title of the album "First
we takeManhattan" is from...
I've seen the future baby, it is
murder!!
Paul Francis Black
Senior
Lecturer in Computing
School
of Computing & Mathematics
University
of Northumbria
tel
2273637
e-mail
paul.black@unn.ac.uk
http://cmwww.unn.ac.uk/~paulb/paulhome.html
15.09.01 23:37:34 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
Radiobridge@aol.com
Perhaps you might send a copy of
the lyric you are referring to with your request.
I am not familiar with it. In any event, my
message to people on the "frontlines"
is likely to be the same: disarm and go back to
your homes in peace. Rage is what got us to this
point. More rage will simply make matters worse.
Charlie
16.09.01 18:46:29 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
radiobridge@aol.com
Yes, it sounds like the lyric is
very high in coincidental "hits," but
really... Too bad the last verse says
"Father's Day" instead of "the
anniversary of Camp
David." It seems to me
that the possible keys to what L. Cohen was
thinking about are two: the sister, who
appears to have had a bad New York experience,
and the line of people in the station. Has
anyone had any thoughts about those? And
why Berlin, for pity's sake? (Answer:
because it's poetry. ??)
Your pal, Charlie
Nostradamus
A further thought
16.09.01
21:56:06 (MEZ)
From:
cameleopard@earthlink.net (Potters)
To:
radiobridge@aol.com
Hi, there. It also occurs to me
that there is a song, older than
Cohen's
which contains the words "You'll take
Manhattan... (, and Staten
Island
, too.") in the sense of "you'll
conquer the town, you'll be a
hit..."
which Cohen was probably binging off of, esp. if
he had a sis'
who
came here to do that and failed to. Just a
thought. Charlie
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Hermann Josef am 14. September 2001
00:09:17:
Als Antwort auf: Anschlag auf das
World Trade Center in New York City, 11.09.2001
geschrieben
von partisan am 11. September 2001 17:35:31:
I´ve seen the future brother, it
is murder......
Cohen ist mein Begleiter in dieser
finsteren Zeit, wo die Doppelmoral regiert.
Kein
Mensch trauert um die 64000 KINDER JEDEN TAG an
Unterernährung, Krieg, vermeidbaren Erkrankungen
sterben. Ich leg "The FUTURE" in meinen
Player und träume von einer Welt in der die
Liebe bestimmt nicht der Hass, in der die
Wahrheit obsiegt nicht die Lüge.
Trauer
um die Opfer,,,,,
Trauer
um das Leben,,,,,
Trauer
um unsere Zukunft,,,,,,
Hass auf die Gier der Menschen das
lebendige Leben zu vernichten....
Ich habe große Angst,
Euer SilentObserver
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Harald als Antwort auf: Re: Manhattan.. what
a tradegy
geschrieben
von frstrg7 am 11. September 2001
22:28:19:
Hi,
ja,
das klingt interessant.
Aber
die neuen Ereignisse haben mich an die Fassung
von Jennifer Warnes erinnert, die ja mit First we
take mehr Erfolg hatte als Cohen. Bei ihr fängt
"First we take Manhattan mit einem
Ausschnitt aus den Radio-Nachrichten an ....
<>. An mehr erinnere ich mich nicht. Das
deutet darauf hin, dass nicht die Musikindustrie
gemeint ist. Obwohl das sicher auch interessanter
Ansatz ist.
Um
es zuzuspitzen: Der (neue) Begriff
"Schläfer", der durch die Medien
geistert und die zwanzig Jahre of boredom ....
Möglicherweise hat Cohen sich also in die Rolle
eines "Revolutionärs", wenn nicht
eines Terroristen versetzt?
Grusz,
Harald
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von frstrg7 am 11. September 2001
22:28:19:
Als
Antwort auf: Re: Manhattan.. geschrieben von
Christina am 11. September 2001 13:04:56:
eine dritte storyline wird die
fassungslosigkeit sein, die mit dem heutigen tag,
immer mit der Tragödie von Manhattan in
Verbindung gebracht werden wird... sorry, dass
ich nicht auf deine statements eingehe, aber auch
ich bin angesichts dieser schrecklichen tragödie
fassungslos.
Quelle / Source: http://www.f25.parsimony.net/forum62399/
Geschrieben
von Christina am 11. September 2001
13:04:56:
Als
Antwort auf: Re: Tower Of Song - Cave -
Manhattan.. geschrieben von Harald am 21. August
2001 17:50:34:
Hallo, Harald!
Der Künstler hat jedenfalls
Einflüsse, die ich nicht kenne und nicht
beurteilen kann. Also kann das, was er erschafft,
als Gefäß für fremde Gedanken dienen.
>WER
ihn zu "twenty years of boredom"
verurteilt hat
..
also, "they sentenced"
->
sie, Mehrzahl, verurteilten, Vergangenheit.
Normalerweise Staatsgewalt - Judikative.
Konsequenz des Verurteilens ist ein Beschränkung
der Handlungsfreiheit.
Schlussfolgerung:
Das System; genau dieses, welches er von
"innen" verändern wollte; in diesem
Zusammenhang (Musik) nicht der Staat, also wohl
die Musikindustrie? .. war ihm 20 Jahre lang eine
Fessel, und jetzt befreit er sich.
Ihr
Einfluss hält ihn nicht länger, und
"ihre" Macht über ihn ist auch
gebrochen.
"Ihre"
Macht; die Frau - "remember me, I brought
your groceries in". (Das ist die zweite
storyline, die ich sehe; aber manchmal schimmert
durch, dass die beiden doch untrennbar sind) (die
Storylines, und die Personen *g*)
Befreit
sich in einem Schlag von beiden, dem System, der
Frau. Denkt er. Denn die Fesseln erkennen und den
Willen haben, sie abzustreifen, heisst ja noch
nicht, tatsächlich frei sein.
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